Withdrawal From The Solidarity Pact Of NSLeft

[Dekks]

This bill will be up for vote until the 15th of May, after which it will move to a vote

Withdrawal from the Solidarity Pact of NSLeft 

Category: Miscelleaneous
Author: The DSA Cabinet
Will come into effect: after the withdrawal of NationStates embassies
Co-Sponsors: Gallo Republic, Dankass Communes, Oh My God It Is So Hard to Find a Name, Slotheria, Cessnia, United Syndicates of Sol, Mauvemarke, Pyceilline, Rhinemank, Rkiande Anatrom, Liossalde, Eythronia, Qingling, Nixanu, Guancamole, Balkvla Islands, La Pays de Soliel, Visrava, Chromatica, Dekks, Cooperative Surrey, Xingal

Chapter I: General Provisions

1. This act may be referred to as 'Withdrawal from the Solidarity pact of NSLeft' 2. This act will come into force upon passage

Chapter II: Withdrawal from the Solidarity Pact

1. Upon passage, the Minister of Foreign Affairs will process the withdrawal from the Solidarity Pact of NSLeft 

2. Upon passage the Ministry of Foreign Affairs shall move to withdraw the embassy with the NSLeft region on NationStates.

[devintheroaster]

I urge all to vote AGAINST this legislation.

[Gallo Republic]

I urge all to vote FOR This legislation.

Attachments:

[Deleted]

thedsa.proboards.com/thread/599/withdrawal-solidarity-pact-nsleft?page=3&scrollTo=1926

^Read through this for all arguments for and against.

Our Minister of Foreign Affairs and Discord Admin both have urged the DSA to vote for this legislation.

I encourage all of you to join me in voting to withdraw from the solidarity pact of NSLeft. Our region has no place for totalitarians or those who would tolerate them.

[silverfish37]

The regional discord really seems to be the place for the most complete discussion regarding this vote. I encourage all to view that if possible before voting.

[studentloandebt]

I urge all to GET OFF MY LAWN!
Also to read the debate
thedsa.proboards.com/thread/599/withdrawal-solidarity-pact-nsleft

[Alvero]

I would also urge members to vote Against this.

[Cacusia]

I agree with dank. NSLeft brings little benefit to our relations or activities day to day. We can build our own friendships and alliances without them.

[finnoestonianempire]

I say to vote against this. We are stronger together, and division against NSLeft will keep us further divided. Us being in a beneficial relationship with authoritarians does not mean that we agree with them.

[Mauvemarke]

I strongly urge all Congress members to vote for this bill. NSleft ideally stands for what we believe in, but in truth it is a harbour for those who deny the genocide that was the Holodomor, claiming it was just poor management on behalf of the Soviet administration (A claim not supported by most historians) and that the Chinese Uyghur camps are exactly what the CCP says, re-education camps... For millions (as if that lie wasn't bad enough to begin with) when multiple sources have shown them to be more akin to concentration camps, based of the Ethno-nationalist ideology of the CCP.

If we really want to say we stand up for minorities, for the oppressed workers, oppressed peoples, races, genders you name it, we can't then happily associate with the very people who would rather ignore oppression of certain people because it's convenient and fits their world view.

Let us leave those people behind, and instead work only with those who aren't in it for the shiny red flags, fancy songs and superiority complexes.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2020 22:00:47 GMT finnoestonianempire said:

I say to vote against this. We are stronger together, and division against NSLeft will keep us further divided. Us being in a beneficial relationship with authoritarians does not mean that we agree with them.

No, but it does mean we think they're okay, and we shouldn't.

[Deleted]

I urge everyone to vote in Favor of leaving NSLeft. My arguments have been previously stated in both the discord and the prior discussion of this bill.

[qingling]

Vote AGAINST. Our grievances with a few individuals is not worth sacrificing our connections with our other comrades. Solidarity forever!

[Deleted]

We wont be sacrificing relations though, we will maintain embassies with those who we currently have embassies with.

[jes5862]

Just so everyone has a clear picture of what they are voting for:
I tried to be diplomatic and explain what was happening but I was told to go f*** myself. And then was later told that the DSA can go f*** itself. I was also told that certain individuals will be asking for our removal. It seems predetermined what the outcome is.

[Dekks]

The vote considering our membership of NSleft has been eventful, to say the least. I think it's important that I clean some things up about my personal opinion and about arguments I see being used.

I am personally in favour of withdrawing from NSleft. As far as my involvement in NSleft's structure is concerned, if the people there wish for me to resign my positions there after the vote regardless of the outcome thenI will have no problem with doing that. While I found the public neutrality important Initially, I realize that it is better that my opinions and reasons are known for everybody now.

As far as the cabinet and the vote being held is concerned, we tried to have the cabinet as neutral as possible in this vote, and found it necessary to have the vote considering that there was no clear resolution to our tensions yet, the bill had garnered many co-sponsorships already, and the cabinet did not deem it correct to engage in any discussion with NSLeft without the Congress' consent. Perhaps we could have done this better but we did our best to make sure that this vote would be as clean for both parties as possible. It would have been much more stressful and tense if it was sooner, yet still had to be done in the cabinet's opinion. While I do support leaving, my co-sponsorship was to indicate support for the vote being held in the first place.

My view on diplomatic relationships in the DSA is that they are not just a fact of life and need enough positives in comparison to the possible risks and negatives they bring. I feel that due to the nature of an alliance being much more demanding and socially complicated for all parties involved than an embassy, any tensions and concerns thus need to be taken more seriously as well.

NSLeft is not necessary for the DSA as a whole to do well and continue doing well both Domestically and Foreignly. We are extremely safe and sound as far as our regional security is concerned and DSA members would be as free as they are now to engage in raiding and defending of fascist regions and leftist regions respectively through The Red Fleet. Our World Assembly influence would not be affected a lot through the DSA leaving NSLeft, since the cooperation of the regions only goes as far as sharing insight and advice, so no homogenous consensus can be forced, we shall continue to work together in the WA with our allies regardless. The DSA will also not lose out on any foreign relations or embassies it may be interested in. Should any individuals wish to remain involved in NSLeft even with the DSA not a member region anymore this is also very possible through them making a nation and putting it in an NSleft member region if they haven't yet.

While tensions between the DSA and NSLeft were there already for a long period of time more recently they have boiled over between certain individuals and our social community. Misley, also known as Caelapes is both an administrator in the NSleft server and in The Internationale and they were one of the individuals our region faced negativity and distrust from in the NSLeft community. For example: there have been calls for a purge by at least 2 NSleft members in the DSA, Misley has claimed that they would open a vote to kick the DSA out of the NSleft should this vote fail, and the general ambiance in the NSleft server being that the DSA leaving NSLeft for at least a while would be the better option for both parties to cool down and get domestic issues sorted with. There is also the question of 'sectarianism'. I understand that the rhetoric of some has played a part in this view but this does not mean the DSA as a body is 'sectarian'.

Lastly I have heard that many who vote to leave do so mostly because of frustrations with TI and the SLU, which wouldn't be a good reason to want to leave NSLeft since the former is only one region in the alliance and the latter is not even in the alliance. This is partially true but misses a lot of context. While relations between the DSA and TI are more tense than relations between the DSA and any other member region as shown in the screenshot, mutual tensions are also visible in TLA and TCB to a lesser scale, and the NSLeft community in general. Personally I do think that TI and even SLU (or at least certain SLU members) have a role important enough in NSLeft not to be ignored in our vote. Not too long ago, our region and TI held votes to withdraw embassies at relatively the same time and TI elected to withdraw embassies with us after the DSA vote which passed with a simple majority was declared ‘failed’. TI’s vote concluded unanimously in favour of withdrawing embassies. The fact of the matter is that an alliance like NSLeft binds us to TI more than an embassy did and that will only continue to raise tensions in the alliance.

As far as the SLU is concerned, they withdrew embassies through a bill which was very popular in their region, slandered our admin and the DSA as undemocratic amongst other things, and was officially condemned by our cabinet as such. Many SLU-DSA double citizens, who do not often engage with the DSA's community, have made themselves active in this discussion by agreeing that through leaving NSLeft we would be 'sectarian' and 'isolationist' and probably have/will have voted on this bill too in spite of their feelings towards our region. There also happens to be a reasonable overlap between SLU-NSLeft citizens and its social space, with the SLU shortly after the DSA put up our bill to leave, expressing interest in joining NSLeft. So TI and SLU are more important to this vote than it would seem at first.


(sources: cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708814706835718254/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708735132931981404/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708710117612191904/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708709827198844949/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708709490568069120/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708700951988404295/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708700580264149002/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708700294283788349/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710154359274471434/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710129095526318081/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710127249139040326/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710127073821458542/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710126953256189993/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710126801334042714/unknown.png cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/710126609281056808/unknown.png and parliament.slugov.com/Democratic_Socialist_Assembly_Embassy_Closure_Resolution)

[Gallo Republic]

Let's look at these two screenshots that I have the links to below. Misley wants us out, and he will do everything in his power to make sure this happens. I am not anti-NSLeft. The concept is great and NSLeft is overall a cool thing. It's the NSLeft admins that makes me vote to leave. They are corrupt, especially Misley. What he shows is not Left Unity, so please VOTE FOR LEAVING NSLeft!!!!!



cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708700294283788349/unknown.png
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708735132931981404/unknown.png

[studentloandebt]

May 13, 2020 23:06:33 GMT Gallo Republic said:

Let's look at these two screenshots that I have the links to below. Misley wants us out, and he will do everything in his power to make sure this happens. I am not anti-NSLeft. The concept is great and NSLeft is overall a cool thing. It's the NSLeft admins that makes me vote to leave. They are corrupt, especially Misley. What he shows is not Left Unity, so please VOTE FOR LEAVING NSLeft!!!!!



cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708700294283788349/unknown.png
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/701114205691969656/708735132931981404/unknown.png

Misley =/= NSLeft. People constantly talk about him as if he is synonymous with NSLeft. He's one guy, not the entire alliance.

[Gallo Republic]

Yes, but he is one of the leaders.

[burgergal]

I am voting to leave. Even though I've stepped back from NS for the most part, I think leaving is both the best option and will be beneficial in the long run.