Removal of the Departments of DSAC and Trade & Commerce

[studentloandebt]

The Ministries of the DSA represent key aspects of our Region. It is a division of the Presidency into smaller organizations. For Ministries, they have departments. Departments represent key and essential aspects of those Ministries.

For the Ministry of Role-Play, those departments would represent key and essential aspects of DSA RP. For the Ministry of Role-Play, those departments are
Cartography- creation and maintaining of maps and the world map
Democratic Socialist Assembly Convention (DSAC) - A global intergovernmental organization (IGO) that serves as the DSA's RP version of the United Nations
Sports Leagues - create sporting events and other competitions for RP nations to compete in
Trade and Commerce__ - assist in the formation and development of economic RP
War and Peace - oversee and moderate any and all war RP that occurs

Some of these we can consider essential to DSA RP. Cartography, for example, is a key aspect and essential to the RP community in the DSA. Others we can consider needed under the MoRP. War and Peace, for example, is a necessary department in how war RP can very easily get out of hand if there is not a moderator.

However, there are two that I do not believe fit under either category of essential nor necessary for the Ministry and as such I do not believe should be Departments.

DSA Convention: DSAC was a short lived experiment of the Ministry. This organization only had continual community activity from August of 2018 to November of the same year. After, DSAC only had activity from individuals and was not used by the community. The last community activity was in April of 2019 when the community voted for a temporary repeal of a resolution that was hindering an RP. In the following weeks, half of the active RP community withdrew from the organization due to the organization itself being inactive and DSAC has had no activity whatsoever since . It is clear that this group is not an essential aspect of the DSA RP community nor does it appear that it is a necessary aspect of the Ministry of RP, as shown by the formation of the Iskarian Intracontinental Union (IIU), a player organized and operated IGO that did not require Ministry oversight to run and acts as a model for other IGOs in DSA RP. As such, I do not believe that DSAC is qualified to be a Department of the Ministry of Role-Play and should be lowered to a Ministry Office where it can be run by a Cabinet Aide instead of a Director.

Trade and Commerce: This Department has only had two (2) directors since its creation years ago, with both directors resigning soon after acquiring the directorship. The Department has produced very little since its creation. The only fully implemented contribution the department has created was the aesthetic design of the DSA RP global currency of the Labour Credit, of which was created by the Minister of RP, not the department. The creation of the currency itself, was also not created by the Department but by the RP community itself years ago. Trade is not a key aspect of DSA RP. One can argue that it is a key aspect to nation RP, but the DSA RP community has not engaged in enough for this Department to be considered essential. The Department is also neither necessary for the Ministry of RP. Currently, there is a Ministry Office called the "Governor of the People's Central Bank". This is an Office and serves as a Cabinet Aide rather than a Director. This Office has produced more than the Department itself through updating the value of the Labour Credit when there was a Governor, of which there has ever only been One (1) Governor. The Office has done more than the Department in a non-very necessary aspect and as such the Department is not necessary. As such, I do not believe that Trade and Commerce is qualified to be a Department of the Ministry of Role-Play and should be lowered to a Ministry Office where it can be run by a Cabinet Aide instead of a Director.

[jes5862]

I second this. But consider my vote biased, being one of the nations that withdrew from the Convention.

[studentloandebt]

Dec 28, 2019 19:19:58 GMT jes5862 said:

I second this. But consider my vote biased, being one of the nations that withdrew from the Convention.

This vote isn't In-Character. It is one based on Out of Character observation. My nation is in DSAC but, out of character, I recognize how DSAC isn't qualified to be a MoRP Department. Views on DSAC should be independent from this vote as this is about the Ministry, not the RP Universe

[Alvero]

I think it's a great idea to either get rid of departments that just aren't in use, and I would support this. I think that this should also be paired with a broader conversation about DSAC, and whether to remove it entirely. I think that if DSAC is something that isn't used, and we don't foresee as being used, then it should be removed entirely. We have the role play category in legislation, so I think it makes more sense to just use congress to pass any role play related legislation rather than having to try and maintain activity in a strictly rp body that half of people have withdrew from.

[studentloandebt]

Dec 28, 2019 21:05:40 GMT Alvero said:

I think it's a great idea to either get rid of departments that just aren't in use, and I would support this. I think that this should also be paired with a broader conversation about DSAC, and whether to remove it entirely. I think that if DSAC is something that isn't used, and we don't foresee as being used, then it should be removed entirely. We have the role play category in legislation, so I think it makes more sense to just use congress to pass any role play related legislation rather than having to try and maintain activity in a strictly rp body that half of people have withdrew from.

Although Congress and DSAC are two different things. Congress is an out of character body made up of many different DSA residents. Not everyone in the DSA is into RP so many in congress won't care about any RP legislation. DSAC is the RP version of Congress where people who do care about RP can do legislation affecting RP. Why force RP onto people that don't want to do RP? DSA Government is one way people can play NationStates while RP is another way and if people don't want to do the RP aspect then they don't have to.

Also, Congress has actual legal power. DSAC is entirely an In-Character body. It has no actual power over RP besides what players give it. If a player wants to break a DSAC resolution, they can and it is addressed IC. If there is an RP law passed by the actual DSA Congress, however, that is an actual law that one cannot break without being punished Out of Character.

For example; there is a DSAC resolution saying "You can't use chemical weapons". If someone breaks this, there are IC ramifications for the nation but the player themselves are not in trouble. However, if this was a DSA Congress legislation, then the actual player is in trouble. The division between DSAC and the DSA Government is further talked about in the Charter of DSAC

Clause 7 - Minister of Role Play


Acting as a branch of the Ministry of Role Play, the DSA Convention cannot override decisions made by the Ministry of Role-Play outside of the DSA Convention.

The DSAC Charter itself emphasizes that it is an IC group that has no actual legal power. If it did, that would actually be really restricting to what kinds of RP a person could do.


Whether or not DSAC should be abolished is another topic. If it is demoted to an Office run by a Cabinet Aide (Offices are not controlled by legislation while Departments are), then abolition can be left up to the Minister of RP. All this document is trying to do is recognizing that DSAC, like the active and enjoyed Office of Regional Cryptozoology, is not a key and essential aspect of the DSA RP Community nor a very necessary aspect of the Ministry of Role-Play.

[Alvero]

Dec 29, 2019 17:07:15 GMT studentloandebt said:

Dec 28, 2019 21:05:40 GMT Alvero said:

I think it's a great idea to either get rid of departments that just aren't in use, and I would support this. I think that this should also be paired with a broader conversation about DSAC, and whether to remove it entirely. I think that if DSAC is something that isn't used, and we don't foresee as being used, then it should be removed entirely. We have the role play category in legislation, so I think it makes more sense to just use congress to pass any role play related legislation rather than having to try and maintain activity in a strictly rp body that half of people have withdrew from.

Although Congress and DSAC are two different things. Congress is an out of character body made up of many different DSA residents. Not everyone in the DSA is into RP so many in congress won't care about any RP legislation. DSAC is the RP version of Congress where people who do care about RP can do legislation affecting RP. Why force RP onto people that don't want to do RP? DSA Government is one way people can play NationStates while RP is another way and if people don't want to do the RP aspect then they don't have to.

Also, Congress has actual legal power. DSAC is entirely an In-Character body. It has no actual power over RP besides what players give it. If a player wants to break a DSAC resolution, they can and it is addressed IC. If there is an RP law passed by the actual DSA Congress, however, that is an actual law that one cannot break without being punished Out of Character.

For example; there is a DSAC resolution saying "You can't use chemical weapons". If someone breaks this, there are IC ramifications for the nation but the player themselves are not in trouble. However, if this was a DSA Congress legislation, then the actual player is in trouble. The division between DSAC and the DSA Government is further talked about in the Charter of DSAC

Clause 7 - Minister of Role Play


Acting as a branch of the Ministry of Role Play, the DSA Convention cannot override decisions made by the Ministry of Role-Play outside of the DSA Convention.

The DSAC Charter itself emphasizes that it is an IC group that has no actual legal power. If it did, that would actually be really restricting to what kinds of RP a person could do.


Whether or not DSAC should be abolished is another topic. If it is demoted to an Office run by a Cabinet Aide (Offices are not controlled by legislation while Departments are), then abolition can be left up to the Minister of RP. All this document is trying to do is recognizing that DSAC, like the active and enjoyed Office of Regional Cryptozoology, is not a key and essential aspect of the DSA RP Community nor a very necessary aspect of the Ministry of Role-Play.

Okay well then that's fine, the problem I have is that it is established in existing legislation, specifically the Executive Appointments. If it's going to be a strictly role play body, then I think we should take it out of the existing legislation in Executive Appointments, and let MoRP manage it and do with it what they want. Treat it the same way any other IGO, like the IIU, is treated. 

EDIT: Also if you think enforcing role play legislation via congress (which like you said would have actual ramifications if you violated it) is problematic, then maybe we should have a conversation about removing that too from the legislation categories.